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Talk:Gillian Grayson
Okay, I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure there's no such thing as "borderline autistic." I think what whoever wrote that was trying to explain was autism spectrum disorder, which is a broad diagnosis category containing everything from Asperger's Syndrome to ADD. Maybe (I haven't read the book) this should say something like low-functioning ASD, or possibly high-functioning autism, if it's specifically stated that she's autistic. :She's described as being autistic in the novel, but there's a suggestion her condition is being worsened with drugs, hence describing her condition as 'borderline'. But I'll change it over to high-functioning autism, given she improves and is capable of better social contact later in the novel. --Tullis 17:58, 4 January 2009 (UTC) Thanks. I would have done it my self, but I haven't actually read the book, so I figured further input was needed. Subject Zero Could they be one and the same :No. Almost too many reasons to list, but I'll name as many as I can think of. 1) Gillian Grayson is autistic, quite noticeably so. Subject Zero, not so much. 2) At the end of Mass Effect: Ascension, Gillian Grayson departs "known space" (for lack of a better term) on the quarian cruiser Idenna, as part of it's five year mission to seek out a homeworld for the quarians. 3) By the time of Mass Effect 2, Gillian Grayson is 15. Of all the things Subject Zero is, 15 isn't one. 4) Gillian Grayson hates physical contact, and seemed happy as a clam to be entirely covered in a quarian environment suit. Subject Zero, on the other hand, seems to prefer wearing next to nothing. 5) The whole 15 years old thing aside, the timeline just doesn't add up. Only two years pass between the events of Ascension and ME2. Prior to that, Grayson was in the Jon Grissom Academy, and two years isn't enough time to have been experimented on additionally, as well as being a member of several gangs and cults, in addition to amassing a rather sizable tattoo collection. I'm sure there are many other reasons as well, but that seems to sum it up for now. All of this info, btw, is readily available in this article, Subject Zero, and Timeline. A little research goes a long way, my friend. Also, do please remember to sign your posts/edits (which is done by entering a tilde- this ~ four times). SpartHawg948 07:55, December 6, 2009 (UTC) Autism Link Just wondering why the autism link was changed from the wikipedia article on autism to the UK's Nat'l Autism Society website. For issues of consistency, I think we should revert to the wikipedia link. In addition to the consistency issue, the wiki article seems more straight-forward and user-friendly, and no offense to the Nat'l Autism Society, but the wiki article is a little less biased (not meaning biased in a bad way, just that the Autism Society does have a vested interest in the subject) and less issue-driven. So I'll leave it as is for now, but if there are no objections I'm gonna change it back. SpartHawg948 23:38, December 6, 2009 (UTC) Gillian Grayson vs River Tam Ok, let's compare these two since this is a hot-button thing as of late. Let's look at similarities and differences. *Similarities- Both gifted girls, experimented on to enhance their potential. Both withdrawn and not what you'd call sociable. That appears to be about it. If I missed anything, let me know, but as of yet, hardly anything unique here, this stuff is pretty standard for sci-fi. *Differences- Both are less than suited to social situations, but for totally different reasons. Grayson is autistic. Her awkwardness is a product of nature. Tam's is a result of experiments. Tam entered the Institute willingly, Grayson did not. Tam has a family, Grayson does not, only a supposed father who isn't. Tam is just a gifted kid who was picked up on by the gov't. Grayson was likely deliberately 'engineered' by being exposed (again, deliberately) to eezo while in the womb. Tam was the subject of concerted experiments by an entire facility bent on turning her into a weapon. Grayson wasn't even really experimented on, just injected, by one rogue scientist while in a facility to help her live with her abilities, a facility that actually had a benign and noble goal. River Tam ends up killing some psycho humans and then going right on living on a dinky old freighter. Gillian Grayson ends up shipping out on a five year mission (gotta love the Star Trek reference!) to find a new homeworld for a bunch of aliens. River Tam is a lean, mean killing machine gifted in the use of all sorts of weapons, as a result of her ordeal. Gillian Grayson? Not so much. River Tam- described as very graceful and a gifted dancer. Gillian Grayson? Happiest clunking around in an environmental suit. I could keep going, but I think I've made my point. So, let's add this all up. A few similarities, but nothing beyond standard sci-fi material, certianly nothing really substantial, and a whole lotta differences. Superficial similarities between the two characters? Sure. 'Strikingly similar'? I don't think so. SpartHawg948 07:57, May 4, 2010 (UTC) I think River Tam is more similar to Jack? Both are lean mean killing machines, very unpredictable, solitary to a fault, both are "human weapons", though I think Tam's talents are more about her martial art (with weapons or barehanded fighting) skills while Jack is a biotic. Braveangel 08:19, May 4, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah, that's my take on it as well. River Tam is much more analogous to Jack than to Gillian Grayson. SpartHawg948 08:24, May 4, 2010 (UTC) :*I disagree. Both are young and vulnerable; both were forcibly exposed to tests by an organisation; both had their families taken away; both are extremely socially awkward; both have outbursts with the powers; both have periods of lucidity and times when they're pretty well incoherant; both grow into their powers and become very powerful. I'm not saying they're the same, but there are a LOT of similarities between them, as the trivia page shoul dstate. Captain Ovbious 08:36, May 6, 2010 (UTC) ::When was Grayson's family taken away? And what about Simon Tam? There are some similarities (not a lot, but some) but there are A LOT of major differences. And as of now, it's 2-1 in favor of not putting it in the trivia section. SpartHawg948 08:43, May 6, 2010 (UTC) ::Actually, upon further review, we can likely make that 4-1. After all, while they have not commented on the matter since this was added, two other users, The Illusive Man and Teugene, undid other edits claiming a Grayson/Tam link. I'd want to check with them to make sure, but it does stand to reason... SpartHawg948 09:10, May 6, 2010 (UTC) :::Actually you can make it 5-1 because I also reverted back in March and before I could do it again, Silverstrike did. I see the parallel between Jack and River but not Gillian. So there is my vote of against putting that here and perhaps on Jack's article. Come to think of it, you might make that 6-1, but since Silverstike is absent, still 5-1 at least. Lancer1289 13:27, May 6, 2010 (UTC) :::Hell, the only other Grayson I know is Dick Grayson a.k.a. Robin. Can I put that in the trivia section? Braveangel 14:26, May 6, 2010 (UTC) (That is a joke.) ::::Nice Braveangel, but there are too many differences between River and Gillian to put into the article as trivia because it isn't trivia. There are much more similarities between Jack and River, but that is a discussion for another time. Lancer1289 15:12, May 6, 2010 (UTC) ::::*To completely close the book on the matter, I decided to email Drew Karpyshyn and ask him. He said that whilst the Captain Mal reference was a deliberate nod to Firefly, Gillian and River and both types of the 'idiot savant'. So whilst similar, Gillian isn't based on River. In fact, he said that he thought Gillian was more like 'Rain Man' than River, though personally I don't see it. Just wanted to clarify so there's no doubt whatsoever. Captain Obvious au 03:25, May 27, 2010 (UTC) I was just wondering does the fact that someone is autistic can improve the chance of being a biotic or increasing ones biotic powers? Or is it just two things that are completly different? :Well, seeing as she is the only human biotic we've seen who is autistic (and we have seen quite a few human biotics), I'd hazard a guess that being autistic does nothing to improve the chance of being a biotic. Increasing power is another matter entirely, but I'd be willing to bet against that one too. SpartHawg948 21:36, October 10, 2010 (UTC) Well considering autism involve different brain chemistry and/or different brain wiring, this could possibly make the implementation of ezo nodules in the brain easier. Or it would increase the strenght of Mass Effect field because the eze could pass trough the brain better. Again, this is just speculation, so I was just wondering... SErgEantaEgis 18:32, October 17, 2010 (UTC) Is she dead? So, the Idena went down and everyone died.... I forget, but did any of the audio logs mention Gillian not, you know, being there? IE, is she dead?NickTyrong 00:04, March 18, 2011 (UTC) :Actually you have your facts backwards. The Idenna never went down, only it's scout ship, the Cyniad did. As to Gillian, no idea but probably alive. Lancer1289 00:08, March 18, 2011 (UTC) ::Yup. Unless you're privy to a source no one else is, the Idenna is still out and about. At least, it is as of ME2, when you can get a nice message from the captain of the Idenna thanking you for helping out his crew. The Idenna is more than likely still out there on it's Star Trek inspired "five year mission". SpartHawg948 01:34, March 18, 2011 (UTC) :::Scout ship! My bad.NickTyrong 02:00, March 18, 2011 (UTC) ::::I believe ME: Retribution mentions that Gillian is in the care of Hendel Mitra, and they're on some quarian exploration ship that Cerberus can't get to. -- Commdor (Talk) 02:05, March 18, 2011 (UTC) :::::Indeed. Mitra and Gillian are on the Idenna, a quarian cruiser on an extended mission of exploration looking for a world suitable for quarian habitation. SpartHawg948 02:08, March 18, 2011 (UTC) ::::::So I guess she is alive. Thanks for stopping me from skimming through Retribution again as I thought she was mentioned in there somewhere. Lancer1289 02:11, March 18, 2011 (UTC) Age debate According to Mass Effect Ascension, which took place two months after the ending of Mass Effect, Gillian was stated to be twelve years old. Skip ahead about three years to the events of Mass Effect Deception and she'd be fifteen years old, but according to the novel, she's eighteen. How does that work? Vanguard1505 13:19, January 28, 2012 (UTC) :This is not the appropriate place for this discussion. Take it to the forums or a blog post as this isn't what talk pages are for. Lancer1289 15:08, January 28, 2012 (UTC) Picture of Gillian The cover of Mass Effect: Deception shows a young woman in a quarian exosuit with dark energy swirling around her. Can we safely assume that this is Gillian Grayson, and can we add this as the main picture of her for this article? PARAGADE74 02:02, February 5, 2012 (UTC) :Thanks for reminding me, I have a picture ready to go. And yes, we can assume this is Gillian, we've got precedent for this sort of thing on the Paul Grayson article, where we use Retribution's cover to show him. -- Commdor (Talk) 02:05, February 5, 2012 (UTC) Toothbrush This is really confusing me. More or less every reference to Gillian I've seen makes mention of Kai Leng having killed her with a toothbrush-shiv, but they're not even mentioned as ever having met on here. Is it that it just a meme, or has it been omitted as part of issues surrounding Deception's writing? I haven't read the book, you see, and from what I've heard about it it probably wouldn't be worth picking up until they've sorted the lore stuff out. Just wondering where this toothbrush thing came from. 18:29, March 19, 2012 (UTC)